17 May

He Said, She Said: Much Ado about Disney

joshperplexed.jpgHey, Emily, did you hear the buzz about Shijingshan Amusement Park in Beijing? It’s that state run park with slogan, “Disneyland is too far.” Apparently they have a bunch of knock-off Disney characters and attractions there, and the English language blogosphere is all bent out of shape about it.

Yeah. I don’t know what they’re so upset about. What’d Disney ever do for them?

They’re calling it a violation of intellectual property rights. Kyle even implied that it was stealing from his “countrymen”.

Here’s one interesting thing about Disney and intellectual property - Mickey was supposed to pass into the public domain a few years ago. He first appeared in 1928. So under the old copyright law of 1976, Mickey Mouse was due to pass into the public domain in 2003. So Disney lobbied to change the law so they could keep their monopoly on all things Mickey.

Is the Disney lobby really that strong?

It sure is. But it had help. It’s no accident that the law was named the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act, or that it was sponsored by his wife, who took over his Congressional seat after his death. Congresswoman Mary Bono (R-CA) didn’t write “I Got You Babe,” but she is hoping that she and her children will be able to collect royalties for the rest of their lives.

Won’t they?

That depends on how long they live. The US gives copyright protection for the life of the author plus 70 years. That used to be 50 years before Disney had it changed back in 1997.

Well, I can see how Sonny and Cher are the authors of “I Got You, Babe,” but who is the author of Mickey Mouse?

A guy named Ub Iwerks, who worked for Walt Disney. But he never had ownership of the character. The copyright is held by the Disney Company. With corporations, copyright now automatically expires 95 years after the work’s creation.

Is it like that everywhere?

No, copyright laws are different everywhere. This isn’t my area of expertise, but it’s emilyexplainsall.jpgwhat I gleaned from a little web surfing: The WTO sets a minimum standard for member countries. The minimum is life of the author plus 50 years, or just 50 years for corporations. Countries are free to give more protection, which the US obviously does, but WTO member countries aren’t required to.

Well then, doesn’t that put Mickey in the public domain in China?

I think so. And not just Mickey, but most of the other Disney icons, too. If you wanted to, you could build your own theme park with emilyidea.jpgpublic domain Disney characters and invite Michael Eisner to come visit, and the WTO would have nothing to say about it. The big problem with the Shijingshan Amusement Park is that it was using new characters. They had Hello Kitty and Shrek, and some other characters that are younger than 50. Those guys are still protected by the WTO rules, but Mickey, Snow White and Cinderella are fair game.

Characters like Snow White and Cinderella are fair game, anyway, as far as I’m concerned. The idea that a corporation could somehow own the rights to the world’s most famous fairy tales is patently absurd!

Heh heh. You said patently.

Seriously, I think it shows how wrong-headed our current notions of property are. These are FOLK TALES. They belong to the FOLKS. Rather than whining about IP violation, why aren’t people telling Disney to pay royalties to the descendants of the Brothers Grimm or to the people whose stories the Grimms collected.

Well, in this case, it isn’t the really the character of Snow White; it’s the image. Or, really, the thing about the image that differentiates this Snow White from all the images of Snow White that came before.

joshconsideration.jpgemilysmarts.jpgLessee…raven black hair and snow white skin and blood red cheeks are all in the original story. That just leaves…a blue dress!?! That’s all they’ve got?!? Well, I guess it wouldn’t be the first time people made a scandal out of a blue dress.

Let’s not start that.

All I’m saying is that by appropriating these folk tales, Disney gives up any possibility of ownership.

Even if the Disney version becomes iconic?

Especially because the Disney version has become iconic. By telling these tales, it’s joshrevelation.jpgbecome storyteller to the world (and made a pretty penny in the process,) so it doesn’t get to charge a fee every time the story gets retold. It’s like the Phrygian mode. There must have been a musician who was the first guy to use that specific arrangement of tones. Does that mean he had a legitimate claim to its sole use? No! Snow White is the same way. Black-haired, pale-skinned, rosy-cheeked maid, magic mirror, poison apple – that’s Disney’s phrygian. The fact they threw in a red bow doesn’t give them sole ownership of anything. Of course, I don’t blame Disney for trying. What the Disney Company really wants is…

Total and complete world domination?

… to maximize profits and protect its assets any way it can. The Disney Company is a corporation, and it has that responsibility to its investors. That’s why it can’t be allowed to set policy. Its only ethic is profit.

And it profits from all kinds of sources. Disney made Rudyard Kipling’s “The Jungle Book” into a movie just seven years after it passed into the public domain. Disney loves the public domain when it’s providing them with free grist for the mill.

That’s the part that really laughable – the accusation that China (as an entity) has in some way wronged America or Americans or the “Disney family” by using iconic images in the public domain which are versions of international folk tales.

Are they really international?

Here’s a test. I’ll tell one, and you tell me when you recognize the story. Young girl – cleans all day for evil stepmother – prince – tiny slipper…

emilydoubts.jpgCinderella!

Nope.

Whaddya mean, “nope?”

Well, you’re sort of right. I wasn’t telling the tale of Cinderella; I was telling the tale of Ye Xian, which is the oldest known version of the story you know as Cinderella. It’s a little different. Instead of a fairy godmother, it’s a magic fish carcass…

Nasty.

…but the idea is the same, though I can see how a magic fish carcass walking around the amusement park might not go over well.

So it doesn’t make sense to beat up on China for “stealing” Cinderella, since the story originated in China.

joshexplains.jpgExactly. I would go so far as to say that intellectual property protection of copyrights and patents is corporate welfare. It is the use of the long arm of the law to enforce monopolies. And consumers always suffer under monopolies. If it weren’t for the Disney Company we would have better, cheaper Mickeys to choose from.

Personally, I have limited tolerance for so called “intellectual property,” too. As Thomas Jefferson, the President, statesman and guy-I-like-to-quote-a-lot, once said,

“If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.”

Whew, Emily! You just finished writing quite a long post. What are you gonna do now?

I’m going to Disney World!

Too far.

14 Comments

  1. 1 May 17, 2007 at 2:23 pm
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    Brilliant. Love the photos! Though I’m certain ShiJingShan was doing nothing but riding the coat-tails of other corporate successes, and there’s little argument that it lacks business ethics - you’ve done well to show that business ethics is a bunch of crap anyway ;-)

  2. 2 May 17, 2007 at 3:38 pm
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    I usually just stick to my RSS feeder, read, enjoy, soak in, and move on sans leaving comments.
    Not for this one.
    This post was fantastic. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I’d love to see a response from China Law Blog.

    Keep on writing, love it. Hope you enjoy my pictures like I enjoyed your writing.

    -Matt in Chongqing

  3. 3 May 17, 2007 at 7:03 pm
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    The photos really add something great to this post.

    I say Mickey is overrated anyway.

    And won’t it be ridiculous when the 20 year extension is up for Mickey and Disney tries to force another extension? Greedy idiots. Let Chinese children enjoy men dressed up in bizarre looking rat suits!

  4. 5 May 18, 2007 at 10:57 am
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    Ya, I usually stick to the feed reader too.

    But this one was hilarious.
    You guys should make that into a series!

    Looking forward to another one…

  5. 6 May 18, 2007 at 8:09 pm
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    As a former theme park employee (non-Disney) I’d be happy to see them all scrapped and reverted to farmland, though with all the talk going around on this one, I’m kinda curious to visit.

    Superb post. Love the photos.

  6. 7 May 21, 2007 at 10:58 am
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    Wellll… not reaaallly.

    A little oversimplified, and looking at the situation with the Park in BeiJing in the wrong way.

    Even if we took your words to be 100% factual (which they tend to be, only up until the point of leaving out some things), the point in which you are trying to make is moot.

    If all you do is look at this as the copying of images, then I could see where some might agree, but this is not specifically about the images, it is about copying the amusement park.

    Their argument was that it was not Disney, because there were not Disney characters in it. To which, even you must agree, is total bs (regardless of public domain and regardless of where the tale originated, the artistic interpretations they were using, were Disney’s).

    Copying public domain is a moot point, on account of the trade rules for competition based on copyrights and public domain. Building a Disney clone, in a country that has a Disney, is breaking even China’s rules.

    The character 京 is public domain, not even considered something requiring a copyright. But, let me draw it in the way they are for the Olympic symbol, to use it for personal gain in a different sports meet, and there will be consequences.

    If the people in BeiJing are trying their best to cover this up, you should be lead to believe there is more to it; otherwise they would just say that it is public domain. But they are not even doing that, they are making copies and attributing it to themselves. Not the same thing.

    Also, the artistic interpretation of the “Sleeping Beauty’s Castle”, is a trademark, thus putting it into a different category, and most definitely not public domain.

    But, the post on my page was more against the atmosphere that has been created in China, in which anything and everything is copied, and often times passed off as Chinese, with impunity.

    For example: http://www.kyle.cn/2006/05/you-would-think-they-would-start.html

    And, is it just me, or do I get the feeling I did something to tick you off? I can understand having differing opinions on things, but when you go off on other sites, using me as an example of what you think is the wrong opinion… it makes me feel like you have a beef with me.

  7. 8 May 21, 2007 at 11:12 am
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    Sorry, don’t know why my archive is not working for that link above, but it is under the title “You would think they would start catching on…” if you look at the month archive.

    http://www.kyle.cn/archive/2006_05_01_kylehdavis_archive.html

  8. 9 May 21, 2007 at 2:44 pm
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    Whenever I think of Disneyland I think of the quote by “Monsieur le French Intellectual” when they set up Euro Disney near Paris that “DisneyLand is a cultural Chernobyl”. I loathe Disney’s products and I dislike their business practices.

    That said, it’s not just Disney that’s pissed off with China’s “borrowing”. The Japanese manga companies are too, and so would I be I guess if only I could come up with a loveable little bestselling critter character.

  9. 10 May 21, 2007 at 4:07 pm
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    @Kyle: Don’t take it personally. We think this is an interesting dialog.
    There are two things I want to mention: First, once something is in the public domain you can do whatever you want to it. Xerox it, copy it, re-interpret it, make it better, make it worse, or anything else you want. That is what public domain means. Second, I agree that it is bullshit for the park managers to claim that their characters are unrelated to Disney’s. I don’t know why they are choosing that argument. They must not have a very good lawyer.

  10. 12 May 23, 2007 at 7:17 am
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    @Kyle: I’ve got no beef with you. I think you’re great. I don’t agree with you about IP protection, but I don’t agree with most people about IP protection.
    We’re in agreement that the manager was lying. That’s irrelevant to me. So is the legality of what the park is doing. Emily gets herself concerned with what IS legal and what ISN’T legal. I think it is some kind of atavistic, masochistic ritual from her lawyer days. I couldn’t care less. I spend more time thinking about what’s RIGHT and what’s WRONG. As far as I’m concerned, the park isn’t doing anything wrong.
    Disney, by appropriating a folk tale AND effectively becoming the principal storyteller of that folk tale to the world AND creating an image so iconic that the folk tale character is virtually unrecognizable without those components that Disney has added - in short, by universalizing their “artistic interpretation” - cedes all claims to its possession. Disney is to be applauded for adding something to the story, but it no longer deserves to be paid for it.
    As to your point about trademarks, it happens there, too. Emily (in the comment above) wrote you can xerox anything in the public domain. Why didn’t she say mimeograph? Should she have to pay Xerox for using its trademark? How far do we let that go? A couple of years ago, McDonald’s bastardized a number of different languages in order to own their slogan. You can’t trademark “I’m loving it.” However, if you drop the “g,” you can. How do you feel about corporate profits coming before the integrity of the English language? I’m lovin’ it.
    Besides, it isn’t as if Cinderella’s castle sprang, immaculately conceived, from the virginal mind of Walt Disney. It’s clearly inspired by (or a knock-off of - depending on your perspective) the Alcázar of Segovia, the castle where Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain were married.
    You write that your post was “against the atmosphere that has been created in China, in which anything and everything is copied, and often times passed off as Chinese, with impunity.” I say that copying is a good thing. Price competition is good for the consumer. Protection of intellectual property is bad for the consumer. You discount the production and distribution as being incidental. I say those are the factors that really should separate the successful companies from the unsuccessful ones. And they would do that in the absence of forms of corporate welfare like IP protection.
    Some people argue that creativity will disappear when there are no protections for the artist. I say that’s not what history has shown. I say we’re creative animals. You can’t beat it or march it or slogan it out of people (no matter what the Cynic-Sinica or extrapohaters say), and you can’t “disincentivize” it out of people, either.

    One suggestion: You created a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Mao to illustrate your point regarding intellectual theft. It’s not very original, but I still think YOU deserve credit for your WORK. Get yourself a silly wig, and you just might get rich.

    Andy Warhol

  11. 13
    Uncle Rob
    May 24, 2007 at 9:21 pm
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    I love you both, and Disney was a rotten right-winger, but…it’s a little different when you think about a poor author, or a small band, or a geek who writes a new program in his garage. China is the largest violator of other people’s patent rights and copyrights in the world, and they don’t wait 50 years. They don’t wait at all. They just rip off the work and creativity of thousands of other people. My publisher doesn’t even bother to sell rights in China, because he knows whatever they’re interested in, they’ll steal. And when they do it with drugs, they sometimes get it wrong and people die.

  12. 14 May 25, 2007 at 7:38 am
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    Hi Robert! Thanks for commenting. I think there is a middle road between the amount of protection that Disney would like (infinite and ever-lasting) and the amount of protection that China offers (nil). I am not arguing that rampant counterfeiting is a good thing, but a knee-jerk response in favor of more protection (which we saw coming from the China English-language blogosphere) is also inappropriate.

    I also don’t believe that the protections for Disney and other huge corporations (MicroSoft, TimeWarner, BMG) end up profiting the little guy. Let’s take music as an example. Right now, the airwaves are dominated by just a few voices. A system like payola helps the big record labels hold on to their dominance. It also prevents independent musicians from finding an audience. That system can only exist in an environment where the commodity is protected.

    If IP protection did not exist, no one would achieve success on the level of Britney Spears, but that might actually be a good thing for most musicians. No single voice would dominate the airwaves and local bands would see an increased market for their music. No one would get mind-bogglingly rich, but a lot of people would still be able to support themselves by doing what musicians do - playing shows.

    Also, Us Weekly would go out of business. That means that, if Al Gore is right, the Republic would be better off.

  13. 15
    Uncle Rob
    May 25, 2007 at 9:17 pm
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    Well, if there were no copyright protections, we wouldn’t have big music companies. We also wouldn’t have nearly as much music period — at least not broadly available. Patents are 20 years, which is nearly what the econometrics say is the intersection between the incentives to invest in producing something new and the benefits from its broad diffusion. And don’t overlook the other side of a patent or copyright — public access to its inner workings, which allows others to build on it and develop something new of their own. Innovation is an iterative process which depends on both aspects.
    And I hate Microsoft as much as the next person, but the benefits for the rest of the economy of a dominant and reasonably efficient operating system (not the best, but that’s the problem with path dependence in network externality-dominated markets) are far far greater than its profits. As for the little guy, he’s screwed under any system, in every country, in all periods.
    I miss doing this in person with you.

  14. 16
    John
    July 6, 2007 at 11:26 pm
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    DISNEY STORIES TAKEN FROM THE PUBLIC DOMAIN
    Aladdin
    Atlantis
    Beauty and the Beast
    Cinderella
    Davy Crockett
    The Legend of Sleepy
    Hollow
    Hercules
    The Hunchback of Notre
    Dame
    The Jungle Book
    Oliver Twist
    Pinocchio
    Robin Hood
    Snow White
    Sleeping Beauty
    The Three Musketeers
    Treasure Island
    The Wind in the Willows

    DISNEY STORIES ADDED TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN
    None

2 Trackbacks

  1. May 18, 2007 at 12:56 am

    Much Ado about Disney…

    peer-see riffs on “let’s raise a people’s army and seize control of Cinderella’s castle,” “the cheese that chokes Mickey is revolutionary cheese” and other slogans….

  2. […] Plenty of other people benefit from works in the public domain and I’m sure many would love to receive increased protection for their derivative works. Fortunately there are still plenty that understand why and how the current laws work. And anyway, other people have written much better pieces about Disney’s two-facedness on copyright. See here for example. […]

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